Nice One Mr Winsor, Nice

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48 Responses

  1. julieanneda says:

    context is all…you also need to bear in mind the cultural norms of the times…how respectful blind acceptance that elders and betters always spoke the truth. How attitudes towards child disclosure have, thank goodness altered since then.
    On the whole for the better…but there is still a residual culture to blame the victims that is alive and well today. well written piece.

  2. julieanneda says:

    context is all…you also need to bear in mind the cultural norms of the times…how respectful blind acceptance that elders and betters always spoke the truth. How attitudes towards child disclosure have, thank goodness altered since then.
    On the whole for the better…but there is still a residual culture to blame the victims that is alive and well today. well written piece.

  3. ExSkipper says:

    An excellent article.Yes,it’s too easy to make sweeping accusations of incompetency and perhaps corruption against the Police based on allegations reported 30 years ago.Agreed, The Service has moved on in leaps & bounds,& todays service can not be justifiably plagued by criticim levelled at officers who have long since retired or collected their last pension payment.

    What I would say, is that there were allegations and investigations up until the mid 90’s. ( Elm Guest House). I believe that these enq’s were closed down by Government with MI5 assistance to protect ‘Priviledged persons’. Op Ore was a fiasco, and tainted by D – notices …It stinks …& that was in recent times. So, any Senior Officer who ‘ followed orders’ or closed such lines of Enquiry needs to account for their actions. Many will be a few years into retirement,but if you can nick Retired Officers for talking to The Press 5 years ago , then lets get this lot into an interview pronto !!!!

  4. ExSkipper says:

    An excellent article.Yes,it’s too easy to make sweeping accusations of incompetency and perhaps corruption against the Police based on allegations reported 30 years ago.Agreed, The Service has moved on in leaps & bounds,& todays service can not be justifiably plagued by criticim levelled at officers who have long since retired or collected their last pension payment.

    What I would say, is that there were allegations and investigations up until the mid 90’s. ( Elm Guest House). I believe that these enq’s were closed down by Government with MI5 assistance to protect ‘Priviledged persons’. Op Ore was a fiasco, and tainted by D – notices …It stinks …& that was in recent times. So, any Senior Officer who ‘ followed orders’ or closed such lines of Enquiry needs to account for their actions. Many will be a few years into retirement,but if you can nick Retired Officers for talking to The Press 5 years ago , then lets get this lot into an interview pronto !!!!

  5. Paul Butler says:

    This rpt is absolutely ridiculous and is obviously written by someone with an axe to grind(Winsor) or someone who hasn’t a clue about the workings of a modern Police Service(Winsor).
    Shall we blame the current Govt.for British atrocities throughout history
    Or today’s school teachers for administering corporal punishment in the 60’s
    Or today’s Dr’s for failing to cure certain illnesses 50 years ago

  6. Paul Butler says:

    This rpt is absolutely ridiculous and is obviously written by someone with an axe to grind(Winsor) or someone who hasn’t a clue about the workings of a modern Police Service(Winsor).
    Shall we blame the current Govt.for British atrocities throughout history
    Or today’s school teachers for administering corporal punishment in the 60’s
    Or today’s Dr’s for failing to cure certain illnesses 50 years ago

  7. NA says:

    Well written piece. Thank you for saying what I’ve been thinking since reading the article this morning.

    Just to put it in context I am a serving PC in my mid twenties. My mother was three years old when the first allegation was made. I think times have changed ever so slightly since then.

    Plus, the major issue seems to be that of sharing intelligence. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that was a finding of the enquiry into the Soham murders and I the reason that the PND was set up…?

  8. NA says:

    Well written piece. Thank you for saying what I’ve been thinking since reading the article this morning.

    Just to put it in context I am a serving PC in my mid twenties. My mother was three years old when the first allegation was made. I think times have changed ever so slightly since then.

    Plus, the major issue seems to be that of sharing intelligence. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that was a finding of the enquiry into the Soham murders and I the reason that the PND was set up…?

  9. njg28 says:

    Excellent points. Couldn’t put it better myself. When I joined in 1981 you would be surprised if the next station 3 miles away shared anything with you. Anyone commiting crime on both patches would be considered a “travelling criminal” ! Different times, different world. Blame today’s police for failings 20, 30 or 50 yrs ago. The Hindsight Police are still clearly alive & kicking.

  10. njg28 says:

    Excellent points. Couldn’t put it better myself. When I joined in 1981 you would be surprised if the next station 3 miles away shared anything with you. Anyone commiting crime on both patches would be considered a “travelling criminal” ! Different times, different world. Blame today’s police for failings 20, 30 or 50 yrs ago. The Hindsight Police are still clearly alive & kicking.

  11. Stephen Hake says:

    This sums it up really. However as always, lets blame The Police. Must be their fault even though people making the allegations did so anonymously!

    • Were you a Dog Handler on Q? If so I know you

    • ExSkipper says:

      Did they ? How sure of that are you ? I think you will find that alot of the victims were not ‘anonymous’ .They made a complaint /allegation of abuse / assault & it was not pursued by The Police in any Constabulary !! That is the story ………The failure of The Police to investigate. & why was that ? This is what needs to be investigated further in these ‘modern’ times.

      May I ask, what is ‘Op Fernbridge’ about, and where are the ‘High Profile’ arrests that the team forecast months ago ????? Still waiting, and waiting ……Is there a ‘Problem’ maybe ???

  12. Stephen Hake says:

    This sums it up really. However as always, lets blame The Police. Must be their fault even though people making the allegations did so anonymously!

    • Were you a Dog Handler on Q? If so I know you

    • ExSkipper says:

      Did they ? How sure of that are you ? I think you will find that alot of the victims were not ‘anonymous’ .They made a complaint /allegation of abuse / assault & it was not pursued by The Police in any Constabulary !! That is the story ………The failure of The Police to investigate. & why was that ? This is what needs to be investigated further in these ‘modern’ times.

      May I ask, what is ‘Op Fernbridge’ about, and where are the ‘High Profile’ arrests that the team forecast months ago ????? Still waiting, and waiting ……Is there a ‘Problem’ maybe ???

  13. Bob S (retired pleb) says:

    Well said! HMIC have judged events from up to 50 years ago by the standards of today and the two are not comperable. There is a complete lack of context in their report, but it is only to be expected.

  14. Bob S (retired pleb) says:

    Well said! HMIC have judged events from up to 50 years ago by the standards of today and the two are not comperable. There is a complete lack of context in their report, but it is only to be expected.

  15. bosco55 says:

    Someone fetch my Delorean please, I need to go prevent a few more failures that my policing ancestors committed because they didn’t have 21st century crime fighting tools at their disposal – I may be gone some time.

  16. bosco55 says:

    Someone fetch my Delorean please, I need to go prevent a few more failures that my policing ancestors committed because they didn’t have 21st century crime fighting tools at their disposal – I may be gone some time.

  17. I fear I may have accidentally deleted one of your comments. If it was yours I do sincerely apologise, it was nothing personal, I was wearing the wrong glasses.

  18. I fear I may have accidentally deleted one of your comments. If it was yours I do sincerely apologise, it was nothing personal, I was wearing the wrong glasses.

  19. Dixie Hughes says:

    I joined in 1974, and am very sorry, Mr Winsor, that I didn’t catch Jack the Ripper, obviously my fault…

  20. Dixie Hughes says:

    I joined in 1974, and am very sorry, Mr Winsor, that I didn’t catch Jack the Ripper, obviously my fault…

  21. steveb1960 says:

    Excellent post Alan, this report is fairly typical of the type of thinking that is applied to many such situations. What happened way back when is judged by what happens now and people are found wanting because they did not have access to shared intelligence or to the safeguards that now exist to ensure that such allegations are investigated.

    I can imagine many of the individuals who knew that Saville was a predatory pedophile & rapist will be breathing slightly easier today as the blame has been laid at the door of the police yet again. They will be hoping that the focus does not switch back to them and remains on the police. I hope that is not the case and some questions are asked of those who were in the know.

    • A fair point Steve, those that knew and did nothing are far more culpable in my view than a Police Force from 50 years ago that bears no resemblance to today’s Police Service. Right or wrong, good or bad, times were different then. I hope they can sleep at night

  22. steveb1960 says:

    Excellent post Alan, this report is fairly typical of the type of thinking that is applied to many such situations. What happened way back when is judged by what happens now and people are found wanting because they did not have access to shared intelligence or to the safeguards that now exist to ensure that such allegations are investigated.

    I can imagine many of the individuals who knew that Saville was a predatory pedophile & rapist will be breathing slightly easier today as the blame has been laid at the door of the police yet again. They will be hoping that the focus does not switch back to them and remains on the police. I hope that is not the case and some questions are asked of those who were in the know.

    • A fair point Steve, those that knew and did nothing are far more culpable in my view than a Police Force from 50 years ago that bears no resemblance to today’s Police Service. Right or wrong, good or bad, times were different then. I hope they can sleep at night

  23. Well-written and very well thought out. It is obviously a failing of the police that time travel has not yet been perfected. We are dealing with people who know nothing and yet maintain that they know best. Well said, I think that I would have resorted to sarcasm which you did we’ll to avoid.

  24. Well-written and very well thought out. It is obviously a failing of the police that time travel has not yet been perfected. We are dealing with people who know nothing and yet maintain that they know best. Well said, I think that I would have resorted to sarcasm which you did we’ll to avoid.

  25. Thank you, Sarcasm is normally my preferred route too, but sometimes you just have to play it straight and state the obvious

  26. Thank you, Sarcasm is normally my preferred route too, but sometimes you just have to play it straight and state the obvious

  27. Doubting Thomas says:

    A fair article. To add to the points made, when I was a teenager in rural Essex in the mid 60s, it was common knowledge that Jimmy Saville liked young girls so if we rustics had heard of it why then did the press, who are so keen to point fingers at the police and the BBC, not expose the man. If we knew they did.

  28. Doubting Thomas says:

    A fair article. To add to the points made, when I was a teenager in rural Essex in the mid 60s, it was common knowledge that Jimmy Saville liked young girls so if we rustics had heard of it why then did the press, who are so keen to point fingers at the police and the BBC, not expose the man. If we knew they did.

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